Nadjeschda Taranczewski — Why More Money Never Feels Like Enough

[00:00:00] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Money is not freedom and money is also not dirty because money is really nothing. Money is whatever you see in it. So what we project on money are actually parts of our personality that we cannot have or that we believe we are not.

[00:00:16] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So for example, if you have the belief that money is freedom, then at some point in your journey you have lost the trust that you as a human being are actually free. So you project freedom outside of you and you think, if I only have this thing and often it’s money, I shall be set free. And of course, capitalism also teaches you that story because it basically tells you if you run fast enough in this wheel and you try hard enough, at some point in your life, you’re gonna have enough money to do what you love and step out of this hamster wheel.

[00:00:49] Intro: Do you think money takes up more life space than it should? On this show, we discuss with and share [00:01:00] stories from artists, authors, entrepreneurs, and advisors about how they mindfully minimize the time and energies. Spent thinking about money. Join your host, Jonathan DeYoe, and learn how to put money in its place and get more out of life.

[00:01:23] Jonathan DeYoe: Hey, welcome back. On this episode of the Mindful Money Podcast

[00:01:26] Jonathan DeYoe: I’m chatting with Nadja, and I was coached in this before we started, Taranczewski. Nadja is a psychologist and works as a coach and facilitator. As a coach, her specialty is supporting high net worth individuals to become money conscious and align money, investing, and purpose.

[00:01:43] Jonathan DeYoe: For our listeners, that might rhyme with some of the things we talk about here quite often. Her company, Conscious U, supports organizations to reinvent themselves as a conscious tribe. Tribe has a thriving community where people invest in inner work, understand the big picture, live deep connections, and cultivate [00:02:00] conscious rituals.

[00:02:01] Jonathan DeYoe: Conscious U offers blended learning coaching programs that make a cultural transformation scalable and promote employee engagement at all levels of the organization. I wanted to have her on the Mindful Money Podcast ’cause she’s a money coach and ’cause she wrote the book, Conscious You: Become The Hero of Your Own Story.

[00:02:17] Jonathan DeYoe: Nadja, welcome to the Mindful Money podcast .

[00:02:19] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: It is wonderful to be here with you. Thank you for inviting me, Jonathan.

[00:02:22] Jonathan DeYoe: And thanks for being, I know it’s really late, uh, Nadja’s in Berlin, so it’s very late there. It’s very early here, so I’m glad we could find the time to make it work. I just said where you call home, are you connecting from Berlin right now?

[00:02:33] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yes, I am.

[00:02:34] Jonathan DeYoe: Did you grow up in

[00:02:35] Jonathan DeYoe: Berlin?

[00:02:36] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Uh, no, but I’ve been here since 2001, so it essentially feels like that’s

[00:02:41] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: home. I, I wouldn’t wanna live anywhere else in, at least not in Germany.

[00:02:45] Jonathan DeYoe: where’d you grow up?

[00:02:46] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I grew up in a smaller town next to Frankfurt, so in the middle of Germany. , IBAN, it’s pretty, the Americans didn’t bomb it , during World War ii, so we actually have a lot of lovely villas around that they used for the offices [00:03:00] after they won the war.

[00:03:01] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah, so it was a protected childhood, but with a lot of ramifications from the fallout of, , world War ii, which is, you know, one of the big motivators for the work that I’m

[00:03:11] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: doing today.

[00:03:12] Jonathan DeYoe: Wow. we’ll get into that in a, in a, in a sec. I’m curious, and I don’t get to ask this question very often of somebody from another country, so I want to ask, what did you learn about money or entrepreneurship as a kid growing up?

[00:03:24] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: You know, a lot and very little at the same time because my parents were both self-employed, so I grew up with a mom who was an artist, , and a father, well, actually sort of two dads, but my, my parents divorced when I was seven, so I had an. Adopted father, who was my mom’s second husband, and he was actually political comedian, so he was touring the country to do standup comedy essentially.

[00:03:49] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And my biological father was running, , an insurance agency, but you know, in his own capacity. So he was self-employed as well. So I’ve never been around people [00:04:00] who had a traditional nine to five job, so I do think I learned a lot around entrepreneurship. When it comes to how do you structure your day, you know, finding your own motivation, dealing with the ebbs and flow of money in the system.

[00:04:14] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: , to a degree where when I graduated from university with my, , master’s in, in psychology, I. I actually did not know how one finds a normal job because nobody in my family had done that. Right. So I was Prepared in some ways, but in terms of the, you know, the nuts and bolts of running a business, I did not learn a lot about that.

[00:04:35] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And I do actually think that Germany doesn’t do a good , job preparing people for it. And we have one of the most bureaucratic and entrepreneurship, . Yeah, unfriendly cultures, that you can find, but you know, you muddle through. Right. So it’s been a, a minute since I graduated, , that was in 2000.

[00:04:55] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I’ve been around the block and it has worked, you know.

[00:04:58] Jonathan DeYoe: It is. I mean, it is, it’s really interesting to [00:05:00] hear. I would never have guessed that I was gonna chat with somebody who’s born and raised lives in Germany, who basically, you have three entrepreneurs as parents, right? Standup comedian, going around the, you know, , artist, which that’s entrepreneurial.

[00:05:13] Jonathan DeYoe: Absolutely. You have to be, and then an insurance person, insurance sales person, insurance, you know, broker,, is it, you call it a broker in

[00:05:19] Jonathan DeYoe: Germany

[00:05:19] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah, insurance program. And, but you know, actually even my, my dad, 20 years ago he started being a coach, so he is now also a coach and we’ve worked together and yeah. So there, there’s a lot

[00:05:30] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: of overlap between my parents and their interests and what I’m doing today. I.

[00:05:33] Jonathan DeYoe: So, and, and I have a, I’ve got a really close friend of mine who actually went to grad school in a completely different world in Germany, and he said the same thing you said. Very bureaucratic, very difficult to get. Something started very difficult and a whole lot of sternness , and just argumentativeness and, it was just not fun there.

[00:05:51] Jonathan DeYoe: just really quickly, like how was it growing up in that environment? Did you have conversations with friends whose, whose parents had just regular jobs and, [00:06:00] and did you, did it, did any of that come to light? Then did, were you aware of that difference as a

[00:06:04] Jonathan DeYoe: child?

[00:06:05] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: No, I was not, , and funnily, the first time that I really consciously thought of the fact that I never figured out how to get a proper job, quote unquote, was maybe 10 years ago when I was sitting in a, in a cow with a bunch of coaching colleagues, you know, fellow. facilitators, and we are going back from a client and everybody was talking about what was my first job before I was doing this.

[00:06:29] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And suddenly I had this moment of revelation where I was like, I did not even know how to get a normal job. And I never tried because that was so alien to me. Right? So everything that I had known were people who just in some ways did what they believed and and loved. So one thing that was certainly.

[00:06:48] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Wonderful about this world was that I never had parents who were disenfranchised or disengaged from what, what they were doing professionally, and it was always clear to me that I had the right, [00:07:00] if not even the obligation

[00:07:01] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: to do something that felt meaningful.

[00:07:03] Jonathan DeYoe: that’s Beau. That’s beautiful. It’s not, it wasn’t this, you didn’t watch the slog. That’s gotta be the best lesson ever, right? Being given permission to pursue what your heart wanted to

[00:07:12] Jonathan DeYoe: pursue.

[00:07:13] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I would say so. You know, actually I’ve never thought about that either. So I, you know, I should thank my parents for having, planted this bug in me because that’s very much what I’m doing with my clients today, right? Is to get away from what I call the, the normal regime where people sort of. A caught in this slog because , it’s like a golden hamster wheel that we’ve been trained to run in and instead step into something that feels more natural.

[00:07:36] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And that is actually deeply connected to following your inner roots, your inner erotics, your knowing about what your purpose either is or what you would like it to be in the world. And so to

[00:07:48] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: have had that from the beginning is, is a

[00:07:50] Jonathan DeYoe: Blessing. give us a sense before we get into some of the more specifics, give us a sense of your career path., what brought you to psychology and then why money? And then why, [00:08:00] why write a book?

[00:08:01] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So psychology maybe to tie that back to the beginning of, of our conversation. So I have, , as you can see with my name, the full first name is Nasda, last name Chesky. It’s not a very German name. . So my first name is Russian. My last name is my wife’s last name.

[00:08:15] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Before I, , married her, my name was Ky Polsky was even longer. So I, you know, I downsized. But you know, that shows you that I do have two different branches in my family. So on my mom’s side, , I have a German family for many generations, but on my father’s side, his dad was Russian and his mom was Polish.

[00:08:36] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And they actually had very horrible experiences during World War ii, , to a degree where my grandmother was forced into prostitution. And she was a live-in prostitute for a German officer. So the, , German army forced her to. Live in Berlin , with this man of whom she had a child as well. And my Russian grandfather, , the German army took him in when they [00:09:00] invaded, , Paris because he was living as a journalist in Paris at the time.

[00:09:03] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And because of his ties into the Eastern European community, they wanted him to work for them as an informant. And after he. Nicely declined twice. They threw him into a concentration camp and tortured him until he agreed. So both of these grandparents had severe trauma in, in their history, and they couldn’t go back into either of their respective home countries because they would’ve been executed as collaborators, which.

[00:09:29] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: You know, depending on how you, you see that they were, so, they got stranded in Germany after the war, , you know, making a, a long and, and horrible schlep, , from the eastern part of Germany into the western part of Germany because they knew the Russians were going to occupy, , east Germany. And that again was not a good place for them to be.

[00:09:48] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So that’s how they ended up in the town of, and on the other side of my family, the German side, they were not. Enthusiastic Nazis, I guess. But since my grandfather [00:10:00] was running the German library in Frankfurt and he did not lose that position, nobody without, you know, an official party association, was able to keep these kind of positions, but those things were never talked about.

[00:10:13] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So the German side of my family was blessed with this heavy load of silence, and the Russian Polish side dealt with that trauma through alcohol and violence essentially. So for me to study psychology is really. The aftershock of, all of that trauma, right? The, grappling for answers, trying to understand why I was the way I was, why I was depressed, why I was having an eating disorder, where, you know, my life was not great when I was a teenager.

[00:10:45] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And so in my early twenties. Then to realize that I want to understand what has been going on and to find a way to heal it. You know, looking back, of course, I would say studying psychology is maybe [00:11:00] not even the best way to get there, but you know, that that’s on a different, , on a different piece of paper, , I did study psychology and I got very interested in how do we create the narratives of our lives and how do we, what do we need to understand to disentangle us and do we need to understand anything to disentangle us?

[00:11:19] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And so that’s where the book then came from, is. All of these parts of my own story, plus the parts of my client stories that had, you know, equally horrible, traumatic, , exciting, just crazy experiences because all family stories are like that. And then figuring out what are the, the most impactful modalities that I have found along the way that have really helped me to shift something.

[00:11:45] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And that’s

[00:11:45] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: what I put into the

[00:11:48] Jonathan DeYoe: there’s a lot there. So, . You talk about in the book, , the construction of our identities, , being unconscious, you know, early experiences before we know we’re constructing an identity. , you’re just talking about that for yourself as well. All these things that went into [00:12:00] what, you know, who you, how you became, who you are.

[00:12:02] Jonathan DeYoe: , , how does someone then begin to unwind and dismantle some of that stuff that creates the limiting identity

[00:12:09] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So maybe the two things that I now feel are the most helpful is the first thing is a deeper understanding of. Reality and how we create reality in our brain, and what we know today from research into brain functions is that there is no such thing as an objective reality that we as a human being can perceive, right?

[00:12:31] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So therefore, we are creating the reality that we are experiencing, and a big part of. Of that is the narrative. So the story that we tell ourselves, and these stories have been built for consistency because we like to have consistency in our narrative and we’ll spin it in a way that that sort of makes sense for us.

[00:12:50] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: But when we realize, for example, that our memories do not function the way we might have thought they function. So I think most of us have this [00:13:00] notion that there’s, nearly like a camera in our brain and I have an experience and that camera records my experience. And then when I. When I have a memory, I look at that recording.

[00:13:09] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So I look at , this thing that happened as if that was now, but in fact or our brain doesn’t work like a camera, much more works like a, like a projector or like a painter. So whatever we pull out out of our archives is then. Filled in with all the juicy details, the moment of the remembering.

[00:13:31] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: , plus it is highly influenced by our mood in the moment. So if I’m , in an elated, happy state when I have a horrible memory, that memory gets actually less horrible if I have an okay memory, but I’m in a very depressed state. When I think about that memory, it actually gets tainted in,, the other direction.

[00:13:50] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So that’s the first insight to realize. We paint the story of our life and we can paint it in a different way, so that [00:14:00] freedom. It’s never too late, right? , there’s even, I don’t really know who wrote the book, but there’s a book, , called It’s Never Too Late to Have a Happy Childhood.

[00:14:08] Jonathan DeYoe: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:09] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: you know, and I think that hinges very much on this idea that this narrative can be changed.

[00:14:13] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So that’s the first idea. And then the second part that I found incredibly insightful for myself was. Understanding that I don’t have anything like a fixed identity, that even though I like to think of myself as, you know, this is Nadia and I have a set of beliefs and, and values and mindsets around things and maybe typical behaviors, the reality of me is probably easier to understand when I think of myself as having different versions of me.

[00:14:42] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Within myself. So different parts that depending on context, depending on who I’m interacting with, they come out in different ways. And to get to know these different cells, you know, now there are a ton of different modalities out there. The one that is probably most popular right now is Internal Family Systems.

[00:14:59] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: , [00:15:00] short IFS, but I was trained in a modality that is called voice dialogue, where you literally begin to create a relationship with these different perspectives in you and begin to heal by integrating them fully into your sense of self, because they’re traditionally parts that you’re very associated with that very much feel like, yeah, that’s me, where’s the polarity of that?

[00:15:22] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah, so for every inner pusher or driver. Where’s my inner couch potato? Where’s the part of me that doesn’t wanna perform all the time? Do I have a relationship with that part? How could my life benefit if I were to develop a deeper relationship with that facet of me?

[00:15:36] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So those are two that I

[00:15:38] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: found really, , powerful.

[00:15:40] Jonathan DeYoe: you asked before we got on where I found you, and that’s what I found. I just remembered that when you were saying this. , I read an article or an interview where you were talking about how we. Manufacture our own realities through the narratives we create post experiential, and then we flavor it with just exactly what you said.

[00:15:56] Jonathan DeYoe: We flavor that manufactured reality with the emotions at the moment [00:16:00] of the remembering, So studying phenomenology and epistemology, I, I was a philosophy major and so studying those things, you understand this, but you don’t understand it the way psychology understands it. Like you don’t understand the specificity of it and how it’s actually manufactured and created.

[00:16:13] Jonathan DeYoe: You’re just sort of thinking about it and yeah, we don’t really have access to reality and those kinds of things. Right. this is fascinating stuff to me. Are there, , common identity traps that we fall into? is there. Hardware in our brain that then creates, you know, a series of subsets.

[00:16:30] Jonathan DeYoe: There’s people like this and like this and like this and like this. Or is it just every person is unique? ,

[00:16:35] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I like that question. I think we have a commonality in the sense of. How our brain tries to get a grip on this multitude of realities, possible realities out there, and the incredible barrage of information that our system has been bombarded with all the time So it’s it’s nearly like we create. A blueprint for how the world works and how people are. [00:17:00] And this blueprint is written before we are probably five years old, right? So our blueprints for who I am, how I’m being treated by other people, how I generally perceive other people who feel safe, who doesn’t. Who

[00:17:14] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: to trust, who not to trust.

[00:17:16] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: That’s an incredibly

[00:17:17] Jonathan DeYoe: we, we we don’t, we have nothing to do with the, the

[00:17:20] Jonathan DeYoe: blueprinting

[00:17:21] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I think at that point, you know, nature and nurture, right? So psychologists today very much believe that about 50% of who we are, quote unquote, is determined just by our genetic makeup. , and our epigenetic makeup, you know, whatever generations before us, which gene patterns they have unlocked or, or locked that are accessible to us or not accessible to us.

[00:17:45] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: but the other half is nurture. It’s how we were raised, right , is the most important. , people that were our caretakers, whether they were our biological parents or other important people in our lives, and they pattern, , this map [00:18:00] for us. And then once we have the map, we don’t think to update the map.

[00:18:06] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And, , you know, one of , my clients and I use that in, in the book too, , he told me this amazing story, so apparently his sister is a biologist. And when I talked to him about this map and I said, you know, it’s nearly like we need to update the GPS. Right? Otherwise we’re driving with old data and we’ll end up.

[00:18:21] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: You know, somewhere in the sea because the GPS didn’t know that there, you know, was a road that ended. , and then he said, oh my, my sister told me this amazing story of bats. , there was a study done with bats where the researchers noticed that the bats, when they. Came out of the cave, they flew to an open, more or less open field, but on the field a tree.

[00:18:43] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And of course, you know, the bats sort of parted to go around the tree. And then for some reason that tree had to be cut down. And what they noticed, , the nights after the tree had been removed from the field, was that the bat still potted as if the tree was [00:19:00] still there. And they’re like. Oh my God, what is happening?

[00:19:02] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Because up until that point they thought , , that bats map their, environment in real time. But apparently even bats don’t do that because it’s probably more efficient to fly with maps until you proven otherwise. So they wanted to test that hypothesis and what they did is they, the bats had sort of a fly out tunnel from the cave, so they put.

[00:19:23] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Some kind of a net in there that had holes in different places. But if you didn’t hit one of those holes, then , you hit the net. So the bats apparently sort of bumped their head, , first night, but then they map this obstacle and every bat decided on, where’s my fly through holes. So the moment they shot out that they put in their wings and then they’re out of the tunnel,

[00:19:44] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: and then they removed the net. What the bats did, at least for some period of time, I don’t know for how long was they would still put in their wings where the, the fly through hole would’ve been, even though now the obstacle was removed to get out of the tunnel. And that’s more as people, [00:20:00] right? So we have our fly through holes.

[00:20:02] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: We sort of think we know where we’re going. , and I do feel that that is one of our biggest pitfalls that most of us as human beings have in common because our brain wants to preserve energy. It So once we have a map, we have a map. Once I have grouped you to be a certain type of person, I will not actually change my

[00:20:20] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: picture of you until I’m prompted to do so.

[00:20:24] Jonathan DeYoe: Okay, we’re diving into money now. ’cause uh, you know, I, 20 years ago I told the stories of where I was just speaking on stage, talking about people and, and why money is so hard. I said then, without knowing everything you just talked about. That we learn stories about money at the feed of our parents and grandparents , before we know we’re learning these stories, right?

[00:20:42] Jonathan DeYoe: So , if money fits in this thing, we have a bunch of beliefs about money that we are raised with, that we don’t even know we’re raised with, how do we peel that back? How do we start to make better decisions? How do we have a healthy conscious relationship with money? What’s it actually look like?

[00:20:58] Jonathan DeYoe: How do we build [00:21:00] it?

[00:21:01] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: you would allow me, I feel like I.

[00:21:05] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Right, for this particular approach to money work. So the money work, , ideas that I’m going to share with you, they’re, they’re based on the research of my friend and mentor, Peter Koenig. Peter is now in his mid seventies. He’s a gentleman who is British, has lived in Switzerland for a very long time, and he was one of the first, if you want organizational developers.

[00:21:27] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Even before anybody had a name for that. And he was working with a lot of businesses, medium sized businesses in Switzerland where he lives. And he said, you know, it’s fascinating to go into these top team events and or work with families that owned the businesses. And you know, we had the most amazing conversations about values, about visions, about the impact we wanted to create in the world.

[00:21:50] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And I supported those groups of people to have these conversations and then suddenly. All bets were off the moment money entered the room. Right. So the, the moment [00:22:00] money was on the table, people started fighting. They started protecting their

[00:22:04] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: own turf. They said, that’s not in the budget. You know, we need to watch the bottom

[00:22:08] Jonathan DeYoe: So when you say

[00:22:09] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah, you.

[00:22:09] Jonathan DeYoe: is on the table, in what, in what way was money on the table?

[00:22:12] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Well, it, you know, when suddenly it became about how do we finance this, for example, right? when suddenly money became the reality, right? Forge, we’re all sort of in dreamland la la land and then suddenly money makes everything so real. , and then he said, but why is that? Like why is everybody getting so irrational the moment we talk about money, right?

[00:22:34] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: As if money. Was not just a human invention. He is like, we made this right. It’s not gravity. Like we can, you know, we can negotiate this with one another. It’s not, it has such a strong effect on us. So out of those first observations, , what came was, . First, the understanding, of course, that money, according to what we just talked about with, , our, our brains and, and [00:23:00] psychology money is. Not something that is like a law of nature. Money is a human creation, and we see a lot of different things in money. If you have a group of people and you ask them what is money? And you write down all of their responses on the flip chart, you’ll have 30 different things on the flip chart, right? So some people will say, money is freedom.

[00:23:20] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Others will say, money corrupts you, money destroys the planet. Money, security, maybe money is even love, right? So you have this incredible range of what people see in money. And with that observation, , the research was sort of developed into an area of going, okay, so if money isn’t real, but we have all of these feelings around money, and everybody sees something different in money.

[00:23:44] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Maybe money is ultimately only one thing for sure, which is a projection

[00:23:49] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: screen. And then the question is, what do people project onto money? , firstly, they have different flavors of projections. So like I already shared, there are some people who have highly [00:24:00] charged positive projections on money, and they’re mainly unconscious of them.

[00:24:04] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So money is freedom. Money is love. Money is security. Money’s luxury. Yeah. All the. Wonderful stuff. And then you have people who have very charged negative unconscious projections on money. So money’s dirty. Money is corrupt money destroys the planet. , you know, money, tears, relationships apart, whatever that might be.

[00:24:24] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: , and then you have people who have sort of a mixed type. They have. Both of these at different moments in time. So depending on your projection type, you will have very different results with money in your life. So people who have primarily positive unconscious projections on money, they are usually always in the Plus, they tend to have money.

[00:24:44] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: They tend to not have any issues with making money, but they’re still worried about money all the time.

[00:24:51] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So having money does not actually make them feel safe

[00:24:54] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: or protected or

[00:24:55] Jonathan DeYoe: That’s me. Yep. Yeah. I’ll feel safe and protected love when I have

[00:24:59] Jonathan DeYoe: it [00:25:00] and I have it. I don’t, so it’s, yeah, it. doesn’t work.

[00:25:02] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: exactly right, because what people then with that type of projections, often realize that money is a moving target. Right? If I had asked you when you were a student, how much money do you

[00:25:13] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: need to have in the bank to feel

[00:25:15] Jonathan DeYoe: Oh, I can actually, I can give you like 30 years of my, my changing,

[00:25:18] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: oh.

[00:25:18] Jonathan DeYoe: the goalpost. I know the goalpost moved and I watched the move. It was,

[00:25:22] Jonathan DeYoe: yeah, fun.

[00:25:24] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: What were the goal? Big goalposts for you? So how did it

[00:25:27] Jonathan DeYoe: Well, for me, it was in, it

[00:25:27] Jonathan DeYoe: was in business. So I had a, I started in this business 30 years ago, I wanted to have like 10 million under management. If I had 10 million under management, I would make certain amount of money from that. And then I had a manager that said, no, Jonathan, , you’re good at this.

[00:25:39] Jonathan DeYoe: , you’re gonna get to a hundred million under management. So, oh, that was my new goal. A hundred million in management income that came from that. And then I started setting metrics on how many people I wanted to employ and how many and the size of business I had and the impact I wanted to have in the community.

[00:25:51] Jonathan DeYoe: And then I set, sort of a metric for the sales price of my company. As you scale, there’s just more. You just get more. You just want more, you more and more. And I’ve been [00:26:00] meditating for 30 years. , I study Buddhism. I understand how this stuff works.

[00:26:03] Jonathan DeYoe: I’ve studied it. , no, that didn’t solve my issues. I, I still just dove right headfirst into all this garbage, so

[00:26:11] Jonathan DeYoe: I love this conversation

[00:26:13] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Isn’t it fascinating, right? I mean, you know, it’s not just you obviously, because our entire economy is built. On these projections, so don’t take it too personal. It’s, it’s not you, it’s sort of all of us. it’s the capitalist system in which we have been socialized and it’s in our bones, it’s in ourselves like we believe, this stuff.

[00:26:34] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So. If we have positive projections on money, then our shadow is greed, right? Because we can never get enough, and not because we are bad people, but because a part of us really believes this is the magical substance that is going to save me. Right? And if I believe that, then of course I have to have more and more and more of the substance.

[00:26:54] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I just don’t update my map. Yeah. So I don’t actually realize. This is [00:27:00] not helping. Yeah. And because of course when I make more money, my circle of friends maybe changes and then suddenly I don’t just have one car, I have two, and then I don’t just have one house. I might have two houses, and then my friends are more successful.

[00:27:13] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And then I, you know, I want the vacation home somewhere. , the more that happens, the more money I need to create to keep this machine running. So I’ve, essentially. Stepped into a golden hamster wheel that spins faster and faster and faster, and I have to keep running to make this work. but you know, then there are people who have the opposite problems. So they have very deep rooted negative beliefs about money, and very often it has to do with how money showed up in their families. So they’ve seen , , , relationships break apart. They’ve seen their parents fight over it.

[00:27:45] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: They’ve seen their whole families being teared into pieces because of inheritance fights, right? Or they, might be very. Politically minded. They sort of look at where the, the planet is going and they go, well, what’s the biggest issue here is people with money, right?

[00:27:58] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Because they destroy the [00:28:00] planet. So their pattern is , they are constantly in the fear of not making enough money to earn an existence, which is often true. So they’re usually in the, the moment they make money, they lose it. and their shadow is. this ignorance is this pushing away of money so the moment money even comes close to them, they find a way to make it

[00:28:23] Jonathan DeYoe: Can,

[00:28:23] Jonathan DeYoe: can

[00:28:25] Jonathan DeYoe: you just really quickly touch on the, concept of shadow being greed or ignorance.

[00:28:29] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So the, you know, for the positive projections, what we mean by shadow is if these projections were fully conscious. They would have a different effect because, you know, again, the way we create reality is actually all of it is projection. So we cannot live our, physical body cannot live without creating projections.

[00:28:51] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: That’s what we do as human beings all day long. But of course, as with everything, it makes a difference . At if I have some awareness that I’m doing [00:29:00] that versus that I think everything, the way I perceive it is reality. So the shadow is the part of me that I cannot see. It’s the outcome that I produce and that I’m driven by without being aware of it.

[00:29:13] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And actually I think Peter has this idea , with the shadow and the projection screen from Carl Gustav Jung. Who wrote a lot about how, the human shadow influences, , how we exist on this planet and how one of the healing, probably most healing elements is to understand our shadow and to integrate that part into our being.

[00:29:34] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: What Peter would propose, and that’s the, the radical thing for me is money is none of these things, right? Money is not freedom and money is also not dirty because money is really nothing. Money is whatever you see in it. So what we project on money. are Actually parts of our personality that we cannot have or that we believe we are not.

[00:29:57] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So for example, if you have the belief that [00:30:00] money is freedom, then at some point in your journey you have lost the trust that you as a human being are actually free. So you project freedom outside of you and you think, if I only have this thing and often it’s money, I shall be set free. And of course, capitalism also teaches you that story because it basically tells you if you run fast enough in this wheel and you try hard enough, at some point in your life, you’re gonna have enough money to do what you love and step out of this hamster

[00:30:30] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: wheel.

[00:30:30] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: But the reality of this, it doesn’t happen.

[00:30:33] Jonathan DeYoe: So I don’t, I I don’t wanna get into it over capitalism, because I think, I think we have different sense of capitalism. I, I don’t know that, maybe the capitalist system sets it up so that we go that way. the definition is who controls the means of production. Is it the government or is it private? That’s all. That’s all.

[00:30:48] Jonathan DeYoe: It’s Right.

[00:30:50] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Right. Okay. That’s a, that’s a

[00:30:51] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: much more definition of, of capitalism.

[00:30:54] Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and, and I’m a huge capitalist, so maybe that’s why I’m on the plus side. Maybe that’s why I [00:31:00] have this. Right. It makes sense to me.

[00:31:01] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: let me maybe just close the loop, because that might be interesting for your listeners too, because I would imagine that many of them actually fall into category three. We call them the washing machine. So they have both sides of projection, right? So they’re positive and they have negative.

[00:31:14] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: They’re not really conscious of either, and they don’t know when they’re triggered. So those are people that then, for example, show up as impact investors and they come into a space and they say, you know, I really wanna support this endeavor because you’re doing something amazing. I believe in your .

[00:31:28] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Mission in your values and in your vision, this, this really great stuff. how can I support you? So they are fully in the giving until , something in them is triggered, some insecurity, some vulnerability, and then suddenly they flop to the other side. And it’s all about what is the bottom line, where the spreadsheets what is my return on investment?

[00:31:49] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And so for. In that space. This is a very confusing bunch of people to deal with because it’s a little bit

[00:31:56] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: like Mr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. You never quite know who you’re gonna sit

[00:31:59] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: [00:32:00] at the table

[00:32:00] Jonathan DeYoe: I, I’m actually I have people in my head that I’m identifying that fall into these categories now. I didn’t, I didn’t know that category before, but now I know. I was like, oh my God. That’s what happened. Like I

[00:32:07] Jonathan DeYoe: saw that happen.

[00:32:09] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah, exactly. We’ve all, you know, we’ve all been there and I, I work with a lot of these kind of people. So essentially the cure to all of that is to look at how do we, understand what it is that we see in money that is actually something that we need to find in ourselves. So even with the nasty stuff, right?

[00:32:28] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So for example, for a long time I had this. People with money are manipulative, right? So the job for me was to find my inner manipulator and to go, actually, it’s not the money that is manipulative because money doesn’t do anything. People with money can be manipulative. But what about me and my power of manipulation?

[00:32:48] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And then the wonderful thing that Peter brought into my life, because, you know, shadow work, when you look at, , Buddhist traditions, , even in the therapy world. There is this understanding that we have a shadow and we need to [00:33:00] confront it. We need to own it, And what Peter brought into my life, which I still love him for today, is he finds joy in the darkness, right? He says, what about the great areas of manipulation? So how has manipulation and being a manipulator actually maybe helped you even survive?

[00:33:18] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: , and once you find the gold in the shadow and you begin to realize, huh? So manipulation, all of the bad stuff is contextual, right? So it depends on when you use it and how consciously you can deploy it. Because in some ways I could also say my power of manipulation is today the highest skill that I have as a coach.

[00:33:40] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Because I do think in some ways I’m manipulating my clients. All the time. But I do it with love. I do it in service of the values that I have and in the service of who they want to become.

[00:33:52] Jonathan DeYoe: There’s a great Buddhist story about, a monk who pre saw that somebody was gonna become a mass murderer, , and the monk killed that person and [00:34:00] he killed that person out of compassion to help that person avoid the karmic effects of all the murders he was going to participate in.

[00:34:06] Jonathan DeYoe: And the monk took the karmic effects on himself instead. interesting to say, Manipulation can be used in a positive way. ’cause we absolutely don’t think that, I just think of manipulation bad. But you’re right. Maybe there’s a different word. Maybe it’s not. Maybe it’s molding.

[00:34:20] Jonathan DeYoe: Maybe you’re molding, maybe you’re not manipulating. Or is that a, is that Word

[00:34:22] Jonathan DeYoe: salad.

[00:34:24] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yes and no because of course you could say the more conscious I am of my capacity for manipulation, the less I will fully move into, you know, full throttle manipulation, because then I can use it in homeopathic dosages. And then I can also give it a different name. But when we do, you know, when I say we, Peter and all the other money work.

[00:34:44] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Facilitators out there. When we work with clients, we usually don’t let them off the hook so quickly. So if manipulation is the thing that gets you, then you need to be able to say, and I am a, manipulator

[00:34:55] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: too, and it’s actually okay. Or maybe it’s even great.

[00:34:59] Jonathan DeYoe: are you [00:35:00] saying just because what, what I said earlier, when I sort of admitted earlier, do I need to say, and you’re, you’re my psychologist right now. I guess, , do I need to say I am greedy?

[00:35:10] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: yes, for example, but, but you will know if you need to say that by using your body as a resonance tool. Because , here’s the funny thing, Jonathan, with these, so the money work essentially is, first I look at. What is the story you have about money and then how do you replace the word money?

[00:35:28] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: With I? Yeah, so money is evil would be, I am evil. You know, money makes people greedy. I am greedy, but also money is freedom. I am free. And then we look at how does your body respond to this? Because if this sentence in your specific biography has any kind of meaning, your body will react.

[00:35:50] Jonathan DeYoe: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:50] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So when you say, I’m greedy, how does it feel?

[00:35:54] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Like, what do you notice?

[00:35:55] Jonathan DeYoe: words. It’s not the right words.

[00:35:58] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah, exactly right. So, you [00:36:00] know, yeah. What, what happens if you say, I’m free

[00:36:03] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: with and without money?

[00:36:05] Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah. that one’s a little harder. I’m free with without money. Yeah. I have a, tightening in the stomach around that one.

[00:36:09] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Right, right. our bodies are immediate we always have a response, and if it’s the right one, then we know where to go. So, with you, I would probably work on this concept of being free and being unfree and how that sits, your identity. So essentially money work is identity

[00:36:25] Jonathan DeYoe: Yes. to do the identity work, are there, qualities, internal qualities I can develop that will, that will enable me to do some of this identity work? on my own? Or do I really need to have somebody that I can work with to kind of help me unwrap this?

[00:36:41] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Right. I think there’s always, , you know, work that we can do on our own. However, there are moments, especially when it comes to, the embodied moments of feeling something deeply where somebody else holds the container for you. It’s just easier., you know, and you’re an experienced meditator, so you might be able to do that.

[00:36:58] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So the the simplest thing we [00:37:00] can do is actually to, to watch our triggers so we can look at, when we think about the money system, the economy, the

[00:37:08] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: politicians, right, what pushes my buttons, and then I write that down.

[00:37:12] Jonathan DeYoe: 99% of the time. For me, it’s politicians.

[00:37:14] Jonathan DeYoe: Absolutely.

[00:37:16] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Okay, great. So you take one of those politicians who really pushes your buttons and you write down what is the quality in them or the characteristic in them that you find just so, so horrible, right? So you write that down and then you notice what happens if I replace the name of the politician

[00:37:34] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: with my own name?

[00:37:35] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Do I have any reaction to that?

[00:37:37] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And then you know, one of the, the metaphors that I have for this word, Jonathan, is they always tell my clients, and I think it makes it easier. I say, listen, when you were born, you were born with an inner house as a metaphor, right? In this inner house. Has a million different rooms.

[00:37:52] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: , it’s like a Harry Potter house. It’s a beautiful creation. It has big rooms and small rooms and ballrooms and nooks and crannies and hallways and [00:38:00] staircases and all of that. And as a child, you run through this house with complete abandon and freedom, and in every room you meet a different human quality.

[00:38:10] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So if you’ve ever been around small children, you see that within the space of two minutes, they’ve been in 16 rooms. They go from bumping their knee and it’s the biggest drama in the world to then they see a butterfly and they’re fascinated. Then they see ice cream and they really want it, and somebody wants to lick their ice cream and they get really angry.

[00:38:28] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Right? So, so all of that happens in a very short amount of time because we’re so permeable at that age. We don’t have any judgements about the rooms we enter, but then we get. Domesticated, you could even say by our parents, by our teachers, by society, and we learn. To observe our environment and we begin to realize, oh, not all rooms are equal to everybody else, right?

[00:38:54] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So if I step into this room, I get attention, I get praise, I get applause, I get [00:39:00] rewarded. If I step into that room, I get ignored, I get punished, and maybe I even get hurt. So of course, I’m not stupid, right? So I begin to map my house and I say good rooms, bedroom rooms, and then I lock the door. To not go in there because who wants to spend time in the bedrooms if only horrible stuff happens when I go in there, but to remind myself to never step into that room.

[00:39:23] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I then also use the police tape. You know, the, black and yellow tape that says crime scene do not cross. And by the time I’m 35, my whole house looks like one big crime scene. Most rooms are locked. Yeah, because I have. Cut more and more of my own humanity to fit into what I think people want from me.

[00:39:45] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And the only thing we’re doing is through this reclamation work. So to look at what have I been projecting onto money, people with money, financial system, politicians, anything. My spouse, you can use anything and then turn it back into, [00:40:00] what about that being one of the rooms within me that I don’t have access to right now.

[00:40:05] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And when I open the room, it doesn’t mean I have to move in there. It doesn’t mean that I now spend all my time in that one room of being manipulative, for example. It just means it’s accessible. I know it exists. And my life energy, my, my qi, whatever you want to call that, it can flow freely, right? Because all the rooms that are locked are nothing but one giant energy suck because I’m so busy trying to avoid these rooms that I don’t really have a life anymore.

[00:40:31] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: , and maybe one other thing, just if you want to do this for yourself, you also look at what is the polarity. So for example, if we are working on freedom. you would also find what is the polarity of freedom for you, and it might not always be the exact thing you would find in the dictionary, so allow yourself to be surprised by what your unconscious comes up with and then play with that.

[00:40:52] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah, so the idea is always nearly like a, you know, infinity loop, , that we are able to access both polarities and a [00:41:00] comfortable being. Having

[00:41:01] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: that be part of our being as a, as a human being.

[00:41:04] Jonathan DeYoe: this is completely off topic. Do you have a spiritual practice? I mean, do you meditate? Do you pray?

[00:41:11] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: honestly, my spiritual practice is that

[00:41:15] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I, feel that reclamation work is one of the easiest and most powerful leavers I. To get clear with yourself and with the world and grow quiet, right? So I do sometimes also meditate, but you know, not, I wouldn’t claim to be, , you know, longstanding meditator, but it is a space I can go to and that I sometimes do.

[00:41:36] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: But I notice the reclamation work plus the other part. And that’s maybe one of the other modalities that I mention, at least in the book, is. If you can, if you have access to that, do somatic work. Do body work, right? Because there are things that are stored in ourselves and our body that are not so easy to access through language and thought.

[00:41:57] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And for me, that has been a game [00:42:00] changer to work with a somatic therapist and to find a quietness in myself through the body. So that is maybe what I would say is my spiritual practice is being very present with my body and really having my, having my inner house be as accessible as it possibly can be.

[00:42:18] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So I constantly feel like I’m unlocking new rooms and new facets of

[00:42:24] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: existing rooms,

[00:42:25] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: and it’s, it’s great

[00:42:27] Jonathan DeYoe: So I’m just gonna use the inner house metaphor. we have the 10 Commandments. you know, every religion has their things of don’t dos, right? are there some doors that culture or. Human history or something that we close that should be closed or, or the doors always, a signifier of a shadow that we should at least recognize even if we don’t participate in whatever activity it’s, is

[00:42:49] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I would probably steer towards the letter and, and again, let me connect that to my own, family history, the rise of fascism in my country, and maybe now in your country, and [00:43:00] maybe in my country again, right, is only possible because a lot of people. Don’t believe that they have this room in their inner house, so they’re essentially blind to that’s not part of their self concept. Also in a way they’re, they, they’re sometimes blind to that somebody that they admire could actually move into that direction because they have them in their internal map packed as a good person, right? So they cannot think anything ill of, of a good person.

[00:43:31] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So it, it blinds us to not be. Able to know these rooms. And maybe also if we have to step into, for example, let’s take the room of violence. Because what happened in Germany during, , the thirties was at a moment in time when the Nazis could have been stopped, the probability to stop them would’ve been much greater if people had not disowned their own capacity for violence.

[00:43:57] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Right? By the time the masses [00:44:00] woke up. It literally meant you were risking your life. Right? , but, you know, violence in the sense of setting clear boundaries, right? when the first Jew was being attacked on the street, do I look away or do I tap into my own anger into my own? Here’s a line being crossed.

[00:44:16] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And do I voice that in a very clear and stern way? If I don’t have access to that room, because I say I’m not that kind of person, you know, I don’t get upset with people. I’m not angry, then I just look away. And if we have enough people who look away because they don’t wanna step into that room, you know, that’s when we create a wonderful soil for

[00:44:36] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: fascism to rise.

[00:44:37] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Because some people don’t have an

[00:44:38] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: issue with that room.

[00:44:40] Jonathan DeYoe: your statement earlier that money, work is, identity work is now just floating up to the surface for me because I’m just, I’m remembering some experiences as a child. where my father would leave the room and go to the garage and like smash things.

[00:44:50] Jonathan DeYoe: Like he was very angry, but he wouldn’t, he wouldn’t express anger amongst the family. Like he would go someplace else and express anger and. There’s an element of that not allowed to express anger that is [00:45:00] just there. Right. And so I know I have anger, but I don’t, I like to tamp it down, whatever, turn away, go do something else, distract whatever scroll.

[00:45:08] Jonathan DeYoe: Scrolling is the, is the answer to most things. it’s very interesting ’cause that, that actually, you’re right, it’s identity work. it’s unlocking the doors. it’s being open to it, it’s turning in Buddhism, it’s turning towards, it’s accepting, allowing, embracing the stuff that we don’t like about ourselves.

[00:45:22] Jonathan DeYoe: you recommend, like a daily practice or a weekly practice, or journaling or something to help people sort of get in touch with this? Is there something we can do on a regular basis to stop closing doors and maybe find doors to unlock and open?

[00:45:36] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So, a, again, just looking at my own triggers, like that points the way right every time I get unduly upset about something and worked up about something. So, you know, doing this in a work I. Much like maybe a practice of Buddhism doesn’t mean that I’m suddenly okay with everything, right?

[00:45:53] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Because some people then say, yeah, but if I do all of that and then I find all of that in me, and I don’t have an issue with anything anymore, [00:46:00] what kind of person is that? That’s not gonna happen, right? You still have your values, but what changes is the charge that you have? So I can see somebody who does something that I don’t agree with or maybe strongly disagree with, but without getting so riled up about it, because I can still say I don’t want that.

[00:46:19] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I. That crosses a line for me. I don’t agree with that right? So there’s something about using my energy in a much more constructive way when the personal charge that is connected to my story

[00:46:30] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: has actually been diffused and, and when this has been integrated into

[00:46:34] Jonathan DeYoe: so this is, this is the radical

[00:46:36] Jonathan DeYoe: responsibility you talk about, like it’s, vulnerable, open, honest, self-knowledge is the only path to empowerment. That radical responsibility of getting to know

[00:46:47] Jonathan DeYoe: what’s real.

[00:46:48] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And I think it’s also the only path to, to peace, right? , all of us, and it doesn’t matter what your political orientation is, we need to look at who from the other, , camp pushes our [00:47:00] buttons, what do we see in that person? And we need to find that in ourselves. , the ignorance, the self inflation, the decadence, , you know, whatever it is we see in these people, quote unquote, where’s that room in me?

[00:47:14] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: How do I live with that room and how can I find some beauty in it and also moderate it? Because that’s the other thing about, you know, to your question,, are there some rooms that should never be opened?, I keep thinking in the US we have so many, attacks by young men who shoot a whole school down, who were then described by their neighbors as, as really quiet and unassuming, right?

[00:47:35] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Nobody expected that they would ever be capable of such a heinous act of violence. So. not acknowledging these rooms doesn’t help us. If the anger is there, we need to know about the anger because only if I know about it can I then learn to deal with this in a productive way. And if I can’t do it by myself, then I can get help with it.

[00:47:57] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah. But if I deny this room and I say, well that doesn’t [00:48:00] exist, or nobody ever talks to me about it, then we are like a pressure cooker and something’s gotta give. And if I have a gun in that moment, that may may not be the best combination.

[00:48:09] Jonathan DeYoe: Scary. we’re sort of winding it here towards the end, but I like to ask every guest this question and that’s, if you meet somebody that’s really curious, , and you have like a two minute, three minute window , to give them. Try this. Like what is one thing a listener can do to like create a better relationship with their own identities?

[00:48:28] Jonathan DeYoe: And then maybe that translates into financial success, but that’s not what we’re talking about right now. , what’s one thing I can do not, not wait for the trigger, but something I can actively do that will

[00:48:38] Jonathan DeYoe: help me.

[00:48:39] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So two things came to my mind. one doesn’t necessarily even have anything to do with money, but it has something to do with getting better. To use your body as a compass, as a friend, as a place where information happens, where you, you know, where you know what is right for you and what isn’t.

[00:48:56] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And the most simple thing you could do there is to, [00:49:00] so for example, if I ask you to say the sentence, I’m a man, just for a moment and notice. How your body feels. Yeah.

[00:49:08] Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah,

[00:49:09] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And now you say, I’m a woman, and notice how your body

[00:49:12] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: reacts.

[00:49:12] Jonathan DeYoe: a woman. I’m a man. I’m a woman. I don’t know if I’m just prepped for it, but

[00:49:22] Jonathan DeYoe: There’s not a big difference. I.

[00:49:23] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: There’s not a big difference. So, you know, maybe there might actually be, be more openness in you than, than in many people. But I. You know, we could

[00:49:31] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: try it with something that is more charged for you. What is the truth that you believe in?

[00:49:35] Jonathan DeYoe: Oh, we’re gonna make this difficult on me. Aren’t, aren’t

[00:49:37] Jonathan DeYoe: we? let’s go with, what I just said. You know, you know, whatever overt anger isn’t okay. Like, visible anger is not okay.

[00:49:44] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Okay,

[00:49:46] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: so you say anger is wrong and notice your body. Mm-hmm. And now you say anger is wonderful and notice your

[00:49:53] Jonathan DeYoe: I can’t even say that. Anger

[00:49:55] Jonathan DeYoe: is wonderful. I mean that I, my body was like, no, we’re not even gonna say the

[00:49:58] Jonathan DeYoe: words

[00:49:59] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Okay, [00:50:00] and where in your body did you notice that?

[00:50:01] Jonathan DeYoe: chest.

[00:50:02] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah. So what this teaches us is not whether the statement is true or false, but how your body responds to it. So right now, in your system, that is a truth. Anger is wrong, is a truth, and anger is wonderful, is a lie.

[00:50:19] Jonathan DeYoe: Hmm.

[00:50:20] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Yeah, so you can feel how your body responds to something.

[00:50:25] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And that is the first way to get more clear and more grounded in who am I and what’s truly important to me because we all have an internal value system that works just fine if we were only able to listen to our body in a, in a better way. So that’s a simple practice that we can try doing, is to say truths and.

[00:50:43] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Quote unquote lies to ourselves. And just notice how does it feel different? Because it trains the sense Yeah. To, to notice, yeah. To use our body in a different way. And then when it comes to money, I would say money is one of the big taboos in our [00:51:00] societies, we don’t talk about money. Not really. We may fight about money, we don’t really talk about money.

[00:51:06] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So what I often tell people is get a group of friends together, host a dinner party and say, we’re talking about. The money history over the last three generations or two generations in my family. Just sort of the ups and downs. What did I learn because of the stories that were prevalent in my family? So to de taboo the topic of money, to start talking about it and to be fascinated how amazing, , connections can grow

[00:51:34] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: when you share that with friends.

[00:51:36] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: So that might be something you can, you can do

[00:51:38] Jonathan DeYoe: I’ve never heard that idea before. I love that idea. And, uh, you know, one of the things we try to do on mindful money is to try to deta the, the conversation about money. That’s one of the goals. It’s, that’s fantastic. It’s a good idea. will I host a party like that? We’ll see.

[00:51:51] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: If you do tell him I said hi.

[00:51:54] Jonathan DeYoe: just before we wrap up, what’s the last thing you changed your mind about?

[00:51:58] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: I, [00:52:00] you know, I’d sort of love to say I’d, I’d like to come back to you about that, because that really is a great question and it deserves not just a, you know, change my mind about whether I wanted vanilla or chocolate ice cream, because that’s not interesting.

[00:52:13] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: let’s put it this way, one thing that has entered my consciousness in a different way is to think about the current state of the world can sometimes really put me in a state of panic. However, what is beginning to enter the field for me is what if this is exactly where we need to be as humanity, and maybe this is exactly what needs to have happened.

[00:52:37] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: And I find that a really painful thought and a very hopeful thought at the same time. Right, because I’m painful because I think. know, why does it have to be this way for us to wake up to different possibilities, through circumstances that are so painful for so many people on the planet? But maybe there’s something better waiting on the other

[00:52:59] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: side for [00:53:00] us. I, don’t know.

[00:53:01] Jonathan DeYoe: I’ve often talked about, the importance of the continuing conversation. Like this moment is just this moment. Everything’s happening today, we’re gonna swing the other way. Like, and this is, this is the swinging, we just have to keep the conversation going. we can’t let anybody end the conversation.

[00:53:14] Jonathan DeYoe: it’s a bad ending, right? anyway.

[00:53:16] Jonathan DeYoe: how do people connect with you? Where do they find you?

[00:53:19] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Well, one way is to find me on LinkedIn. I’m sure you can provide some links afterwards because to spell that would put people in a panic now. So not an easy name to spell. my company’s website, conscious minus u.com. , we have a program around money that we run twice a year in German and English, so two different cohorts.

[00:53:39] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: , and it’s a three month. Journey into what we discussed today, a deep patterning, a re-patterning of our money stories. And I, you know, deeply hope that more people on the planet do this work because I think that’s where the

[00:53:53] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: buck stops is in our relationship to

[00:53:56] Jonathan DeYoe: Absolutely. Nadia, thanks so much for coming on. This has been not [00:54:00] just, uh, wonderful for the audience. It was wonderful for me.

[00:54:02] Jonathan DeYoe: Appreciate it.

[00:54:03] Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Thank you so much for having me, Jonathan.

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