117: Jessica Perrone — A Guide to Financial Empowerment with Jessica Perrone

[00:00:00] Jessica Perrone: Look at your money and your spending logically by saying, what is the return on this investment? And I do this and I challenge all my students to do that so that you take the emotion out of it if you are spending it on a candle doohickey and TJ Max in the checkout line. Okay. What is the return on this spend, this candle spend, what is the return on it? Is it just gonna go in a closet and not work for me? So like, what is the return on my investment? How is this money going to to earn monies for me?

[00:00:42] Intro: Do you think money takes up more life space than it should? On this show we discuss with and share stories from artists, authors, entrepreneurs, and advisors about how they mindfully minimize the time and energy spent thinking about money. Join your host, [00:01:00] Jonathan DeYoe, and learn how to put money in its place and get more out of life.

[00:01:12] Jonathan DeYoe: Hey, welcome back on this episode of the Mindful Money Podcast. I’m chatting with Jessica Perrone, and she’s gonna correct me if I said that wrong. Jessica’s a seasoned, financed expert with over 16 years of experience in the personal finance trenches. She’s the mom of three teenage girls and a passion advocate for financial education.

[00:01:29] Jonathan DeYoe: She’s dedicated to empowering young people, especially young women, with knowledge about money and investing. Jessica’s innovative and relatable approach has led her to develop a curriculum that makes finance approachable. Fun and relatable for teens of all backgrounds. Jessica, welcome to the Mindful Money Podcast.

[00:01:46] Jessica Perrone: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:49] Jonathan DeYoe: I’m really excited for the conversation. Just before we dig into things, where do you call home and where are you connecting from now?

[00:01:55] Jessica Perrone: Okay, so today I am connecting from Gladstone, [00:02:00] New Jersey. And funny story about Gladstone, it was the epicenter of the New York City earthquake.

[00:02:07] Jessica Perrone: So yes, our teeny tiny town hit the news that way.

[00:02:12] Jonathan DeYoe: Beautiful.

[00:02:13] Jessica Perrone: Yeah,

[00:02:14] Jonathan DeYoe: I live in Berkeley. So when you say earthquake, like we know what that means here. Like that’s a, that’s a big deal. It happens all the time. Where’d you grow up?

[00:02:21] Jessica Perrone: So I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I am the oldest of eight children, and growing up we didn’t have any money conversations because there wasn’t any money.

[00:02:33] Jessica Perrone: The big treat for any one of us was to go to the grocery store with my parents to pick out that one potential treat. I have so many memories growing up in in that sort of chaos. And now we’re all like super duper close and best friends. It’s, it’s amazing. It really is.

[00:02:51] Jonathan DeYoe: Uh, you know, I’ve talked to a lot of folks and I think one of the things that growing up in a family that struggles a little bit financially is that that closeness is enhanced.

[00:02:59] Jonathan DeYoe: [00:03:00] Like you get a lot closer to people when you’re struggling together. Does that fit?

[00:03:03] Jessica Perrone: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And. So what’s interesting about my family is the community and communal aspect of it, and what does that mean? Well, all of my brothers and sisters are all very handy, so they will go and help each other, like build decks or do home improvement processes and really help to enhance each other’s.

[00:03:31] Jessica Perrone: Net worth if you think about it. Yeah, yeah. Um, so, and you don’t see that a lot, um, nowadays. So that’s one, one aspect of it. And we’re all very frugal. We talk about our budgeting and the deals that we have, and so it really has resonated with us. And I talk a lot about finding budget buddies, people to go on your journey with you and my whole family are my budget buddies.

[00:03:59] Jessica Perrone: [00:04:00] It’s really wonderful to have that kind of support system.

[00:04:03] Jonathan DeYoe: So how did that happen? Did your parents indoctrinate you into talking about money at the kitchen table or was it the, you go to the grocery store, you get that one treat and did that, was there a lesson there? So what did you learn about money and maybe, maybe even entrepreneurship growing up?

[00:04:17] Jessica Perrone: So what’s interesting is I think what I learned from my mom. Were two aspects. The first one is how to work super hard. My mom and my dad worked so stinking hard all the time. So seeing that type of effort put into not only providing for eight kids, but also to think of. What are some side income streams they could bring in to make ends meet?

[00:04:46] Jessica Perrone: So that sort of work hard mentality really resonated with me. And I started my first job at the age of 13. I literally took my work papers to my mom and I said, please sign these. And I started [00:05:00] waitressing at the age of 13. And so I guess that sort of that work ethic. Was definitely shown and learned from my parents for sure.

[00:05:12] Jessica Perrone: And I mean, I could talk on and on about this, but the rest of it really came from just my work life.

[00:05:18] Jonathan DeYoe: So I’m, I’m curious because you worked with 13. I worked when I was 12. I’ve had guests on that worked when they’re 12, 13, 14. There are always people that. We sort of promote this idea of work ethic. So I have to ask the next question.

[00:05:31] Jonathan DeYoe: You have three teenagers or three kids that are basically roughly the same age as my kids. Have they had jobs since they were 13,

[00:05:38] Jessica Perrone: so yes and no.

[00:05:40] Jonathan DeYoe: Oh, okay.

[00:05:42] Jessica Perrone: Okay. The catch. The

[00:05:43] Jonathan DeYoe: catch. So,

[00:05:45] Jessica Perrone: okay, how do I put this? So. This is kind of like a side story because I’m a gentle woman farmer. Okay, so again, the communal work ethic, so did they have [00:06:00] jobs I.

[00:06:01] Jessica Perrone: Yes, but were they all paid jobs? No. So whether it is out in the farm, you know, taking care of the animals, mucking stalls, mowing, whatnot, they are all part of the family unit to create. An end result. So we’re teaching a work ethic, but is it necessarily monetarily assigned? Maybe not, but that’s where the budgeting comes in because all my girls have budgets they have to maintain.

[00:06:35] Jessica Perrone: So I still talk to them about money. So for example, if they wanna get. You know, their nails done and their hair done on the same month, that’s not gonna happen because it’s not in the budget. Right. But again, like to your credit, with your mindfulness, when you anticipate something, when you work towards something, when you finally get it, it’s that much sweeter.

[00:06:54] Jessica Perrone: Mm-Hmm. And I feel like putting that budgeting in for them allows them to sort of [00:07:00] have that mindfulness around money and the process behind it as well.

[00:07:04] Jonathan DeYoe: Can you point to like a, a single or maybe a couple different experiences as a kid? With seven siblings, this experience that would become integral to your money story, something that you learned as an experience in the household that’s like, I took this out of that experience.

[00:07:20] Jessica Perrone: Oh, there’s so many. That’s such a hard one. It’s your favorite one. But the, okay, so there’s two that came to mind. Okay. And if you don’t mind, like Mm-Hmm. Sometimes I go off on these rabbit holes, so if you wanna, you know, bring me back to number one or number two, please feel free to. So the number one is resourcefulness.

[00:07:39] Jessica Perrone: Because of our income levels, basic things, the needs of our lives, and we talk about, you know, needs and wants. I’m sure you talk about that too. In mindfulness, a need is dental care and so. I used to go to the dental school to have my dental work done [00:08:00] because it was discounted, and instead of having braces, they told me to suck on Popsicle sticks.

[00:08:06] Jessica Perrone: So like if you, and, and like if I sucked on the Popsicle sticks, that my teeth would align better. So I attribute my teeth actually to the Popsicle stick. Resolution, believe it or not. So really that sort of education about needs and wants Yeah. Is a large part of my life. And also resourcefulness. I would say that I.

[00:08:33] Jessica Perrone: That is such a wonderful way, not only to save money, but to make money on the side. The second one has to do with credit scores. My family, wait, you, you learned this

[00:08:43] Jonathan DeYoe: as a child? Credit scores,

[00:08:45] Jessica Perrone: the lack thereof. Okay. And the implications of that. No kidding. Right out of their young Oh, tell me,

[00:08:52] Jonathan DeYoe: tell me.

[00:08:52] Jessica Perrone: So, so my family was.

[00:08:55] Jessica Perrone: A cash family and my mom was an immigrant. She believed in [00:09:00] cash and a lot of immigrants don’t understand that paying cash for everything will not help your credit score and therefore will not help you with your financial passport. When it came time to apply for loans for college, we could not get loans for college.

[00:09:21] Jessica Perrone: Because my mom did not have a credit score that was high enough to co-sign for loans for me. Wow. So what I had to do was take a year off between high school and college and actually save enough money for my first year of college so I could pay, and then I had to go through and pay cash and work alongside.

[00:09:43] Jessica Perrone: My college education to pay for it. So that was a huge lesson that I learned about credit scores. And now a large part of my education is understanding how to, and, and this is part of my before investing course, which is the financial ducks, the things you wanna get in a row [00:10:00] before you start investing and cultivating your credit score is another great way.

[00:10:05] Jessica Perrone: To save money in the long run. So those would be my two, like the two things that pop into my head. I mean, there’s so many things I learned in this journey that those would, I would say, would be the two that were, that just popped in my head when you, when you asked

[00:10:20] Jonathan DeYoe: the question. Right. Resourcefulness and well needs, wants, resourcefulness and this and the, and the cultivating your credit score.

[00:10:25] Jonathan DeYoe: I have a quick credit, uh, question for you. ’cause my Yes son is 19. He has a credit card. He’s held room for about seven months now. He checks his balance every. Couple weeks and he makes a payment every couple weeks. Does that I do too. I do too. Okay. I do too. Go ahead. I for I wait for the statement. I was like, is that gonna hurt his credit score?

[00:10:44] Jonathan DeYoe: Does the way, the way I do it hurt my credit score? Does it matter if you do that?

[00:10:48] Jessica Perrone: Okay, so this is such a good question and I’m so glad you’re asking it because I started paying off my balance on a weekly basis. Because it’s so [00:11:00] easy to lose track of how much you’re spending. So in a cash environment, you kind of see what you’re spending.

[00:11:05] Jessica Perrone: But if you wait a whole month to see what you’re spending, then you can very quickly get behind. That’s also a budgeting strategy that I have. Your balance on your credit card is actually, and, and your payments are a plus. That is potentially something that will increase your credit score. So that’s a good thing.

[00:11:26] Jessica Perrone: And the other reason why I did it was because the checking of your balances by the credit bureaus doesn’t happen and line up with where your zero balances. So I, for example, had an emergency that happened and I wanted the points, so I put a new water heater on my credit card. And then I paid it off.

[00:11:52] Jonathan DeYoe: I know that emergency.

[00:11:53] Jonathan DeYoe: I’ve had that same emergency.

[00:11:54] Jessica Perrone: Yes, yes, yes. And thank goodness I had the emergency fund to cover it. But then when I [00:12:00] paid it off, and then I looked at my credit score and my credit score went down and I was like, why did it go down? Like not a lot, just like a little bit. I’m obsessive about it, but it went down a little bit and I was like, that’s weird.

[00:12:11] Jessica Perrone: So it took a snapshot of my credit utilization mid. Hm. And that’s why it went down. So after that, I just paid off on a weekly basis as opposed to on a monthly basis.

[00:12:23] Jonathan DeYoe: What I’m hearing you say here, and this is very difficult for me to admit, but what I’m hearing you say is that the way my son manages his credit card.

[00:12:30] Jonathan DeYoe: Is better for both tracking and his credit score than the way his father, who’s been a financial advisor for 30 years manages his credit card. That’s what you’re saying right now is the way my son does it is the right way. The way I’m doing it’s wrong.

[00:12:42] Jessica Perrone: Okay, okay, okay. Okay. I am going to say ’cause I am forever the.

[00:12:46] Jessica Perrone: Uh, diplomacy. Oh, perfect. Everyone’s journey is their own journey. Okay. And sometimes that one point doesn’t matter. Right. And that’s fine. And that’s part of mindfulness, right? Like you can [00:13:00] be obsessive like me and oh, you know, it’s, it’s also the way that you look at money, right? That the whole psychology behind money and Sure.

[00:13:08] Jessica Perrone: And some people are, are more laid back and as long as it’s. Fine on a monthly basis, and as long as they’re getting great interest rates, you know, that extra 25 points doesn’t matter to them. Fortunately, and unfortunately, this is something that I notice and I have lots of intention behind, so there is no right or wrong is what I’m trying to say.

[00:13:33] Jessica Perrone: Of course.

[00:13:33] Jonathan DeYoe: Of course. I. Specific, you know, dot all the i’s, cross all the t’s. I think he’s doing it right and you’re right. I don’t, it doesn’t bother me at all that I’m doing it my way. It’s my way works for me, and I’m not offended at all if he’s doing it a better way. That’s awesome. I just had no idea.

[00:13:49] Jonathan DeYoe: I’m, it’s, I’m,

[00:13:50] Jessica Perrone: yeah. Well it’s funny because that’s, those are actual, it’s something that I do as a strategy. I do so.

[00:13:55] Jonathan DeYoe: That’s awesome. Tell him that.

[00:13:57] Jessica Perrone: Can we ask what your son’s name is?

[00:13:59] Jonathan DeYoe: [00:14:00] It’s Eli. My son’s name is Eli.

[00:14:01] Jessica Perrone: Eli. Okay. Yeah. So like kudos to him.

[00:14:04] Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah. Good for

[00:14:04] Jessica Perrone: him.

[00:14:04] Jonathan DeYoe: I’m gonna turn him off D for yearly.

[00:14:06] Jessica Perrone: This is a shout out for you.

[00:14:08] Jonathan DeYoe: I’m gonna definitely have him listen to this episode. He’ll, he’ll feel good about this. Before we look at the, at the work you’re doing at, uh, you know, her Fin iq, what brought you to where you are today?

[00:14:19] Jessica Perrone: Oh my goodness. So my ex and I built a FinTech company. I. And when we first started building it together, I had very little financial knowledge.

[00:14:35] Jessica Perrone: And I was working with institutional trading desks, both domestically and internationally, equities, fixed income and rates. And I was like, you know what? I gotta learn this stuff. I’m like, I gotta learn this stuff if I’m gonna be working in this space. So I actually taught myself how to trade. Mm-Hmm. And when I was looking at your website about the countless [00:15:00] hours and the monies that I lost.

[00:15:03] Jessica Perrone: Trying to figure things out. I completely agree with you. Like there is so many ways to lose money, whether it is just not knowing what you’re doing, like investing in a small cap, investing in a TikTok tip, and the move has already happened. Um, I mean, there’s so many ways to really, to, to lose money if you don’t know what you’re doing.

[00:15:26] Jessica Perrone: However, I learned so much and I created strategies and I use three strategies personally. I have my own investing account. I do have a Robo-advisor that I use, and I do have a financial advisor that I work with as well. I. I believe that knowing how to use the various types of ways to invest your money is very important so that you can get the best return on your investments.

[00:15:58] Jessica Perrone: But it just really does take a lot of [00:16:00] education and that’s why I put together her financial IQ was so that women. Could find a resource to understand the process and the how-tos to invest their monies. And even, and I’m happy even if a woman has a better conversation with their husband, or if a young lady that’s new to the workforce puts extra money to her 401k to get those company matches, like these little processes that maybe.

[00:16:29] Jessica Perrone: That aren’t intuitive for us as we grow up without someone telling us the ropes. These are all the ways that my courses help women.

[00:16:37] Jonathan DeYoe: So there’s two, there’s two things I wanna, I just wanna, I guess, pull back the curtain on a little bit. One, I’ve had this conversation with women who’ve been, guests who have siblings who are boys or men, and they tell me that the conversation at home when they were growing up.

[00:16:51] Jonathan DeYoe: Their brothers would get the conversation about money. Yes. They would not get the conversation about the money. And so you, you won’t, a lot of women, do you, do you hear that same thing? Is that, is [00:17:00] that not universal, but is it pretty broad? Broadly spread? Yeah.

[00:17:03] Jessica Perrone: Absolutely. Absolutely. But just think about it.

[00:17:06] Jessica Perrone: Just think about it. The times girls spend with their moms and the times boys spend with their dads. Right. There’s also STEM research. Yeah. That kind of comes into this. As well. So let me just back out a little bit, that there is STEM research that shows that if a mom says to their daughter, I can’t do math, then those girls are more likely to say, I can’t do math as well.

[00:17:33] Jessica Perrone: Right. And if you have a mom that says, I can’t do investing, or, uh, this is too much for me. Well. Chances are the daughters are going to have that same type of approach to investing saying, I can’t do this. And I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it with women that are so nervous coming into like a group lesson or a one-on-one coaching, like the anxiety is right there.

[00:17:59] Jessica Perrone: And I’m [00:18:00] like, no, no, no, you can do this. Yeah. And I think that’s the one thing that’s, that’s another thing that we’re trying to do is, is feel confidence that yes, and I can, I identify with investor. Here’s an inter, another interesting experience I had recently with a group of a girl scout troop and it was about 45 middle school to high school girl scouts and we were all in a room and I asked ’em what they all wanna be when they grow up.

[00:18:28] Jessica Perrone: And only two out of the 45 said, you know, accountant. And that’s it. Like, no, like I wanna be a financial advisor. I want to go to Wall Street. And I said, well, why? Why? They’re like too much math, too hard. They had already. Had this ingrained conversation with them, ideology that they could not do it. So I went through, you know, the speech that I have with the, the Girl Scouts and I, and I said, well, in your lives I still want you to wear that investor [00:19:00] hat.

[00:19:00] Jessica Perrone: I still want you to identify as the investor, no matter what field you go into. And so by the end of this, talk with them. I had created a new dialogue within them, and when I asked them to say, okay, how many of you promised to wear the investor hat? They all put their hands up. That group, that conversation with these girls, reset that ideology that yes, they can be investors to, I’m sorry again, I digress.

[00:19:31] Jessica Perrone: No, it’s, I have these rabbit holes, so

[00:19:33] Jonathan DeYoe: it’s per, it’s perfect actually. So I, I remember pre pandemic, I used to go to three, four conferences every single year. And I remember, this is just like eight years ago, you know, this is not 1990s, this is not the eighties, this is not the fifties, right? Yeah. This is eight years ago.

[00:19:45] Jonathan DeYoe: I would go to the conference and I would sit up in the front and, and they would, there would be a, you know, somebody that’s a speaker at a financial services conference looking at all the financial advisors and saying, Hey, I. Remember when you’re speaking to a couple, [00:20:00] occasionally look at the wife and I was just like, what?

[00:20:02] Jonathan DeYoe: That’s so silly to me. I live in a very progressive area, so I, my clients are very female. Strong families, like women are the primary breadwinners. It’s very normal. Wow. Or they are divorcees or. You know, they’re widowed or they’re, they’re managing it themselves. They are doing it solo in many cases, and they’re doing great.

[00:20:22] Jonathan DeYoe: They’re doing exactly what they need to do. They’re fine at it. There’s no struggle. There might’ve been a struggle getting there. This is why the work you do is so important, right? The industry still doesn’t really pay attention, doesn’t really, it’s like difficult for them to focus on educating women. So it’s, it’s, what you’re doing is fantastic.

[00:20:37] Jonathan DeYoe: I, I wanted to ask a, a question. The second question was. You mentioned kind of three ways to invest the DIY, the robo and the hiring advisor. So can you just kind of. Not describe the three ways, but how do I know which way’s, right. For me, what’s the, the, the way I can tell the best way For me,

[00:20:55] Jessica Perrone: this is such a long answer.

[00:20:57] Jessica Perrone: So how about, I’m gonna give you a short answer, please. And it’s a [00:21:00] little famous self-promotion. Take my investing four beginners course, because we go through it. It is, it is substantial. Yeah. And it really does, because there’s so many things to think about, whether it’s risk tolerance. Life stages, how much you have to invest.

[00:21:17] Jessica Perrone: So there’s a lot that goes into it. And in these courses we even like talk about if you are going for a financial advisor, if you’re looking for a financial advisor, what are the things to talk about? Mm-Hmm. You know, questions to ask in that first meeting. What to expect in that first meeting? What is the, the risk tolerance questionnaire that you’re giving to them?

[00:21:38] Jessica Perrone: And what does it mean? ’cause I remember when I first started teaching the course with investing for beginners. A lot of women were opening up with, you know, not as substantial beginning investing points or opening up some RoboAdvisor accounts. And they would come to me and they’re like, Jessica, what is this questionnaire?

[00:21:55] Jessica Perrone: What does it mean they’re stressed out? Just about the questionnaire, I. And so what I would do is I’d [00:22:00] like take them through it and then I’m like, you know what? I gotta create a whole module on what it means. So we actually go through the questionnaire, we talk about what it means, which is funny. A lot of it is just making sure that your financial ducks in a row, which is what I talk about in my before investing course, which is talks about how to get your financial ducks in a row and making sure they’re in a row before you start investing.

[00:22:22] Jonathan DeYoe: Hmm. I wanna loop back just a little bit. What was there like a. A trigger point or an experience, what is it that inspired you to say, okay, I’m gonna do. I’m gonna do her Finn iq. Now

[00:22:31] Jessica Perrone: my ex and I went through a divorce and during the divorce I stepped down from the company and I was trading on my own and I was lonely.

[00:22:44] Jessica Perrone: I missed being on Wall Street. I missed having people to talk financial markets with. So I was like, you know what? I’m gonna do a book club for women traders. And I couldn’t find any anyone, traders. And then he was like, I was like, you know what, I’m gonna teach women how to trade. And so I went to the soccer field, [00:23:00] the basketball course, and I’m like, I’m teach.

[00:23:01] Jessica Perrone: And I’m like, there’s so many smart stay-at-home moms, of course, they wanna learn how to do self-directed investing and, and place trades. And the anxiety that, like I even saw the rosacea go up there next like, oh, I can’t do that. My husband does that. I’m like, really? I mean, how could you not, how, how could you not wanna learn how to do this?

[00:23:20] Jessica Perrone: So I realized, and that’s how I did my investing for beginners course, first was I just need to help them. Create the confidence and understanding and knowledge to even have the conversation with their husbands or accompany their husbands to the financial advisor. So it really was like creating the basics to go to a financial advisor with confidence and understand what is being talked about in those meetings.

[00:23:46] Jessica Perrone: And then another aspect of that you asked about, you know. The ways to put it together. Well, once you identify the ways, well, what are you gonna invest your monies in? And that’s where the Stocks and ETFs course I created and [00:24:00] it’s, it’s simplified. I have some strategies that really break these down so that you can get an idea of where risk tolerance.

[00:24:09] Jessica Perrone: Stocks and ETFs where they all converge in your process. So, and people are like, Ooh, that sounds heavy, but I promise you, I promise you, I have women that are reading their statements after taking all three courses and actually understand what’s going on with their investments and feel so empowered.

[00:24:30] Jessica Perrone: They’re talking to their financial advisors. They have goals, they have plans they’re doing with confidence, and that’s really all I could hope for. And I also, you know, if there is our financial advisors out there that want to educate their, the women in their practice or bring. The women into the conversation and help educate them so that they have more confidence coming into the offices.

[00:24:58] Jessica Perrone: To feel free to reach out to [00:25:00] me. I’m happy to bring this education to the women in the various practices out there. I.

[00:25:06] Jonathan DeYoe: That’s a, that’s a good, uh, that’s a good way to, uh, for you to actually reach out to a larger audience, I’d think is through, through the advisors that, uh, you know, at least share the need or desire to educate people.

[00:25:15] Jonathan DeYoe: Maybe I’m cynical, but I do have this, one of the things that Wall Street does or that investors do or the, the advisory community does is, is, makes it. Opaque makes it difficult. I mean, that’s how people are forced to trust us, right? Which is absolutely, which actually does the reverse. Right. It makes it so we’re not really trustworthy.

[00:25:31] Jonathan DeYoe: Um

[00:25:31] Jessica Perrone: Exactly.

[00:25:32] Jonathan DeYoe: Except those of us who are trying to educate is what I’m, what I’m hoping.

[00:25:35] Jessica Perrone: Absolutely. And it’s funny because you’re absolutely right. There has been studies done that shows that financial terminology. Uh, was purposely created to obfuscate, and that’s really what I’m trying to do with my, or I am doing.

[00:25:54] Jessica Perrone: There we go. I am doing with my courses is to really break it down and [00:26:00] make it approachable and friendly because I, I love finance. I think it’s so much fun. I’m such a finance geek. I, I even teach about like interest rates. And you know how interest rates can also sort of approach how you look at your investing, or whether you’re gonna invest in a house or take out a mortgage, or even shopping for, for high yield savings accounts.

[00:26:24] Jessica Perrone: Like how all of this plays in your financial wellness and knowledge is power. And the more that you know and the more you understand. The more power you have to make really great financial decisions. I

[00:26:36] Jonathan DeYoe: So you’re, you’re a finance geek? I’m a finance geek. What I’ve, I don’t know if you’ve met a lot of other finance geeks, but I, I, I know people that are in the industry that aren’t finance geeks.

[00:26:45] Jonathan DeYoe: And I, when, you know, my clients are like, I don’t want to think about this. It’s not that they’re not capable and not that they think they’re not not capable. They just don’t want do it. They want somebody to do it for them so they can focus on their business or the book they’re writing or their. Family or travel or whatever the thing is.

[00:26:59] Jonathan DeYoe: Right. [00:27:00] So I’m, I’m, I’m curious, it sounds like you are really, you’re interested in helping the people that wanna be finance geeks, but the stuff you’re teaching is good for people that are just want to get the basics. Um, absolutely. Is there one of the other or both?

[00:27:14] Jessica Perrone: It’s both. Okay. It’s absolutely, you’re absolutely 100%.

[00:27:19] Jessica Perrone: These are the foundations that I feel everyone should learn. Okay, so lemme just back up a little bit. So you have your doctor, right? And you understand that that is in your toolbox, right? And you have the basic knowledge of, you know, how your insurance works and, and, and how they’re gonna help you, right?

[00:27:40] Jessica Perrone: And then you have your dentist and you know, the basics of that. But your financial wellness is such a large part of your life and stresses, and if you understand the basics, then you can prevent a lot of stress in your life and create harmony. And I love the, you know, I [00:28:00] really love what you talk about and sort of envisioning where you wanna go.

[00:28:04] Jessica Perrone: Well. How can you envision where you wanna go if you don’t know where to go, right. Or how to get there. So these, these are all ways that you can get to that vision, and I lay them out in a very easy to understand and approachable manner.

[00:28:19] Jonathan DeYoe: You describe your work at her f and IQ as as, um, empowering women to take control of their finances.

[00:28:24] Jonathan DeYoe: So why focus on women? I think we might have covered a little bit first, and then what does the focus on women. Does the focus on women change the advice at all? Is the advice the same advice or is there something different you’re telling women?

[00:28:36] Jessica Perrone: So the reason why, and I also help couples and families, but really bringing into the, the curriculum and the modules, because I have video modules and whatnot.

[00:28:48] Jessica Perrone: And creating the community. Women in general are more timid, talking about finances. When there is,

[00:28:57] Jonathan DeYoe: it’s a safe place, a

[00:28:57] Jessica Perrone: man present, they’ll take the subordinate [00:29:00] role frequently. Frequently, not all the time. Okay. But frequently. And so this allows women to have a platform. To talk about finances and not feel quote unquote dumb because we’re not dumb.

[00:29:13] Jessica Perrone: It’s just we’re not understanding it. And I can’t tell you when I first started out, how many times a man. Would say to me, oh, you don’t know what that means? I’m like, no, I don’t know what it means, but I’m not dumb. Can you please explain it a different way? Literally. So to have someone say, these are not dumb questions.

[00:29:32] Jessica Perrone: Ask a way if you have this question someone else had and have a really supportive and nurturing environment to talk about finances. That’s really what I’m trying to do. I do coach both females, men, I also coach families because. Families that budget together will have more success as well. So my modules and my courses are very women-centric, but my [00:30:00] coaching is family counseling and coaching.

[00:30:03] Jessica Perrone: I’d say

[00:30:03] Jonathan DeYoe: the second part of that question is, does the advice change ’cause it’s women.

[00:30:08] Jessica Perrone: Okay, so that’s a loaded question. Because it’s interesting because I’ve had men, and this is why I started coaching men as well. Men come to me and say, look, why are your courses just for women? You know? We as men have a lot of.

[00:30:26] Jessica Perrone: Stress on our shoulders being the quote unquote breadwinners of a family. And we are expected to know all of these things, and we don’t always know about these, these financial basics as well. And we don’t necessarily want to go to our bros because we’re embarrassed about going to our bros about it. And they feel more comfortable going to a woman to talk about.

[00:30:53] Jessica Perrone: These financial basics, whether it is personal finance or investing basics or, or whatnot. I feel [00:31:00] like when it comes to spending and needs and wants and sort of life, life stages and where you are, that conversation is a little different. And I would say that, and I, and I actually did a, a sort of research just.

[00:31:21] Jessica Perrone: Out of interest about the whole, like as a society, women and appearances, and the cost that comes with that, and the debt that comes with that. So I, I do have a little white sheet that I created on that. If anyone’s ever interested in seeing that, just because, again, again, your mindfulness, I can’t say enough about your mindfulness because you know, there are so many influences of society on us, but especially women, and being mindful in your spending, being mindful for purpose so [00:32:00] that you are not filling your life with stuff and therefore you’re spending less because really.

[00:32:07] Jessica Perrone: Your wealth is an equation. It is assets minus liabilities, and if you are spending too much or if you have too much debt, then you can’t build wealth. So it really does all come down to this mindfulness that you talk about. I.

[00:32:22] Jonathan DeYoe: Spending. Yeah. So I, I read in the blog that, um, one of the goals was to help women build courage to fire their financial advisors who just aren’t cutting it.

[00:32:33] Jonathan DeYoe: First of all, Bravo, I’m, I’m for that. Uh, one, one of the next. Totally. I am, uh, one of the objectives of Mindful Money is to sort of, I guess, challenge advisors to up their game with that in mind. Can you describe an advisor who is cutting it? What, what is their circle of competence? How do you tell,

[00:32:50] Jessica Perrone: and that’s interesting because I have a whole segment in the investing for beginners about talking about what to look for with a [00:33:00] financial advisor, a relationship with a financial advisor.

[00:33:03] Jessica Perrone: Is like a relationship with a spouse. You don’t go on one date and like expect to find your forever partner. Like, and, and people don’t think about that, especially women. Don’t think that. People in general don’t think that way. They’re like, oh, I’m supposed to date around advisors. Yes, like interview, interview, interview.

[00:33:21] Jessica Perrone: Ask people. Ask people that are happy with their financial advisor, especially women, word of mouth is. One of the best ways to do that and then interview and see synergies and when you know your investing thesis for yourself and where you wanna go in these life stages, and when you have all these realizations of what you want.

[00:33:42] Jessica Perrone: Then you can even identify more because if you don’t understand what’s going on and if you doubt yourself, you could be bullied and there are financial advisors out there that will bully you into sort of their set routine. They won’t follow up with you. The [00:34:00] only time you hear from them is when they have to check off their list that, that their clients were contacted at least once a year by their firm.

[00:34:06] Jessica Perrone: There’s a sort of a sweet spot with financial advisors. And, uh, I see you’re smiling. Wanna, just That’s true that there is a

[00:34:14] Jonathan DeYoe: requirement that you have to talk to everybody once a year. I’m just, I’m just noting that that’s a fact. Yep, yep. Once a year. Know your require. Okay. Yep, yep.

[00:34:20] Jessica Perrone: Yes, yes. I also talk about in the investing for beginners and talking to financial advisors for the first time, ask where their fees are.

[00:34:31] Jessica Perrone: Like, how are they making their fees? Is it commission, is it fee-based? Is it by a UM? How much a UM will you be talking to that person? Because these are salespeople too, and they might have a whole team underneath them, so they might have the person selling you and then you get handed off to a junior person based on a UM you and Oh, the a UM is assets under management.

[00:34:52] Jessica Perrone: Okay. I’m, I’m like backing up a little bit here. Yep. Good. So for example, if you have. Only $5,000 to [00:35:00] investment. I mean, and that’s like, and typically minimums to go to financial advisors are $5,000. But that’s another thing. Asking what the minimum is to invest with them is an important part of looking at it.

[00:35:10] Jessica Perrone: But if you have an investment of $5,000, but they’re, they typically work with million dollar accounts. You might not have sort of the attention that these other accounts will. So what is the average account size is a good question to ask. How many women do they work with? You know, what is their, their typical clientele, how long have they been in it?

[00:35:35] Jessica Perrone: So if they’re too junior, they might be hungry. They might give you a lot of attention, but they might not have had all the experience and all these life stages to really help you. But if they’re too old, maybe their book is too big and they’re not gonna give you too much attention. They don’t know what the latest, you know, software is out there to do estimations and whatnot.

[00:35:54] Jessica Perrone: So there is really a sweet spot, and I do talk a lot about this in the Investing for Beginners [00:36:00] course as well.

[00:36:01] Jonathan DeYoe: So I want to ask a very specific question. I think a lot of the world I. And this is, this is changing. When I started at being an advisor, the, the thing that I did was I would cold call someone and we try to get them to buy a stock, and then if they bought one stock, we call them up and try to get them to buy another stock.

[00:36:18] Jonathan DeYoe: If they said they don’t want a stock, then we try to sell them a bond. Like we try to build a relationship. One investment at a time.

[00:36:24] Jessica Perrone: Yes. That’s.

[00:36:25] Jonathan DeYoe: 19, late 1990s. Okay. Yeah. Today it’s more about building a relationship and looking at the whole picture and doing some financial planning. And does, my question is, do you think that people or advisors have any special ability to pick investments?

[00:36:39] Jonathan DeYoe: In other words, to choose an investment that’s gonna outperform another investment time, the market prognosticate about the economy? Is that something that that advisors have the capacity to do, or is that outside of their circle of competence?

[00:36:51] Jessica Perrone: So it depends on the type of advisory you go to. A lot of advisors have the software, they input your [00:37:00] inputs, and then they diversify amongst set portfolios based on that risk tolerance.

[00:37:06] Jessica Perrone: So there isn’t a lot of ability to go outside of those, those funds. The other aspect that you’ll see with financial advisors that they’re, they’re not allowed to sell away. From their account or the, the things that are available through that financial advisor. So for example, if there is like alternatives, like real estate funds or whatnot, they’re not curious to really go out and maybe diversify into those types of funds.

[00:37:36] Jessica Perrone: So sometimes financial advisors will stay in their wheelhouses, but there are financial advisors out there, and I can think of a couple that went from the trading desk on Wall Street and went to different strategies at different financial advisors that incorporate that into their strategies and.

[00:37:57] Jessica Perrone: Usually those are considered more risky [00:38:00] and sort of the overall diversified portfolio. But yes, there are still advisors out there that offer that as a service. I. For their portfolios.

[00:38:10] Jonathan DeYoe: So some of the more private things, I mean yes, real estate, et cetera. And,

[00:38:14] Jessica Perrone: and, but also like, uh, like you said, trading strategies like news, trading strategies or, you know, I, I’m just thinking of, of one advisor and I get their research report on a regular basis, and they have different themes that they’re focused on to create higher returns for their clients.

[00:38:34] Jessica Perrone: Again. Higher return is frequently with higher risk. So that would probably be part of the riskier part of a portfolio stack. So to say,

[00:38:45] Jonathan DeYoe: everyone that listens to the podcast know that I, I, I’m a big believer in just the efficiency of markets in order to, you’re, you’re gonna get that same average. The question is, how much work are you gonna put in to get it?

[00:38:54] Jonathan DeYoe: Uh, how much risk you gonna take to get it? And that’s, that’s, you know, that’s really everything you’ll get kind of what you deserve when you [00:39:00] invest. Like, if you’re too aggressive. You’re gonna get what you deserve. If you’re too conservative, you’re gonna get what you deserve. It’s just kind of, it kind of makes sense.

[00:39:06] Jonathan DeYoe: So there’s a, there’s an enormous amount of noise out there, and I want you to simplify it for us. So, if you met a young woman, maybe she’s on a plane, you’re traveling across the country, she’s curious about how to become personally, financially successful. What is one thing you tell her, you know, when she gets home, do this today.

[00:39:22] Jessica Perrone: Oh, that’s so hard. That’s such a hard question.

[00:39:27] Jonathan DeYoe: That’s not the zinger one end. We’re not even to the zingers yet. Okay?

[00:39:29] Jessica Perrone: Okay. Okay. I will say. Listen to my courses. How about,

[00:39:35] Jonathan DeYoe: oh, you gotta, you gotta give us something outta the course. Give us something outta the courses. Give us a nugget.

[00:39:40] Jessica Perrone: Okay? So if you are interested in building your wealth, number one is to just get your financial ducks in a row.

[00:39:48] Jessica Perrone: I. Everything really comes down to budgeting. It really does creating a budget, sticking with the budget, and allocating money towards investing, like getting to the point where you [00:40:00] can allocate money towards investing and you do have to to pay off bad debt with high interest rates. Before you can really focus on building wealth.

[00:40:10] Jessica Perrone: Mm-Hmm. Because if you have high interest credit cards that’s compounding and you are losing a lot of money and you are potentially getting into a position that’s not great. So I would look at your debts, look at your liabilities, and really try to get those under control so that you can start building wealth and.

[00:40:33] Jessica Perrone: Look into yourself on your spending and ooh, ooh, look. Okay. This is my one thing I wanna say. I just thought of it. I just thought of it. Okay. Look at your money and your spending logically. By saying, what is the return on this investment? And I do this and I challenge all my students to do that so that you take the emotion out of it if you are spending [00:41:00] it on a candle, Dewey and TJ Max in the checkout line.

[00:41:06] Jessica Perrone: Okay. What is the return on this spend, this candle spend, what is the return on it? Is it just gonna go in a closet and not work for me? So like, what is the return on my investment? What is, how is this money going to to earn monies for me?

[00:41:23] Jonathan DeYoe: And this is on spending money. That’s an interesting take.

[00:41:25] Jessica Perrone: On On.

[00:41:26] Jessica Perrone: Yes, on on. Just, it takes the emotion out of the concept. If you can just check yourself, I. When you’re spending, you know, wait and check yourself and say, what is the return on this investment?

[00:41:36] Jonathan DeYoe: So the second half of the question is actually more difficult. So what’s one thing? Oh, no. What’s one thing that she’s, she might be doing that she should stop doing?

[00:41:45] Jessica Perrone: It has to be spending more than you make.

[00:41:50] Jonathan DeYoe: Hmm. Not, not more difficult. That’s definitely, that’s, that’s bottom line. Absolutely.

[00:41:55] Jessica Perrone: Yeah. And, and like, and not. A place where you’re paying [00:42:00] off your credit cards on a monthly basis or a weekly basis. A weekly basis if you’re smart.

[00:42:05] Jonathan DeYoe: Eli?

[00:42:06] Jessica Perrone: Yeah.

[00:42:06] Jonathan DeYoe: So just before we wrap, I wanna come back to the personal again.

[00:42:09] Jonathan DeYoe: Is there anything people don’t know about you? Or maybe you’ve mentioned it and they don’t remember that you really want them to know?

[00:42:14] Jessica Perrone: Ooh, anything people don’t know? That they should know. That’s a tough one. That’s the z we

[00:42:23] Jonathan DeYoe: zinger. That

[00:42:23] Jessica Perrone: is the zinger. I feel like it is that I’m approachable. And you can approach me via social media email.

[00:42:36] Jessica Perrone: I love talking to people. I love hearing about their journeys. Share it with me. And I really, you know, I have been successful in my life. I love mentoring people, so just know I’m approachable. I am in your corner and I am here to help you even figure out what the next step is in that journey.

[00:42:57] Jonathan DeYoe: That’s a perfect segue, so tell people how to connect with [00:43:00] you.

[00:43:00] Jessica Perrone: Sure thing. So I’m Jessica Perrone, founder of Her Financial IQ. My handles are Her Fin IQ, H-E-R-F-I-N-I-Q, and my website is herfiniq.com.

[00:43:15] Jonathan DeYoe: Jessica, thanks for being on the on the show. All that’s gonna be in the show notes and I appreciate your time today. This has been great.

[00:43:21] Jessica Perrone: I so enjoy talking with you. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:43:29] Outro: Thanks for listening. Full show notes for each episode, which includes a summary key takeaways, quotes, and any resources mentioned are available at Mindful Money. Be sure to follow and subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, and if you’re enjoying the content and getting value from these episodes, please leave us a rating and review at ratethispodcast.com/mindfulmoney. We’ll be sure to read those out on future [00:44:00] episodes.